ASPNET2 Radically Changed from v1.1

microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet

23 Dec 2005 7:56 AM

Mark Olbert

I'm starting to play around with VS2005 and ASP.NET 2 and have some questions.

The typical pattern for a data-driven aspx page in v1.1 was data connection -> data adapter -> dataset -> bound controls. V2 (at
least by default) doesn't include data connections, data adapters or datasets in the toolbox when building an aspx page. Nor can I
find where the DataView component went to. Everything now seems to rely on the DataSource controls.

Some examples (to which I would appreciate responses on "here's how it's done in v2"):

1) If I want to present two different views of the same data -- where I would previously declare two separate DataView components
onto the design surface of a page and then bind controls to them -- must I create two different data sources? This sounds like I'm
buying into multiple requests against the database for essentially the same data.

2) One pattern I used a lot in v1.1 was to define a current record object (for either the form or a row in a databound control), and
then use it to return values to display. For example, suppose a record in the database had two fields, Title and DateChanged. I
would concatenate these two fields in a protected method called from within, say, a DataRepeater:

protected string TitleAndDate( DataRowView curDRV )
{
some_data_set.row_type strongly_typed_row = (some_data_set.row_type) curDRV.Row;

return strongly_typed_row.Title + " (" + strongly_typed_row.DateChanged.ToShortDateString() + ")";
}

And yes, I know I could do this through databinding expresssions, but frankly they were a pain in the butt to configure; this way
may have been less efficient, but it was clearer. At least to me :).

But in v2 the Datasource control doesn't seem to return a strongly-typed collection of objects. In fact, there doesn't seem to be
any "knowledge" of the underlying database schema exposed in the return value of, say, its Select() statement (clearly the schema is
contained in the Datasource control, but it seems hidden...or at least I haven't been able to find it).

How do I get access to strongly-typed values from a Datasource control so I can do things like I was used to doing in v1.1?

Frankly...so far I am deeply underwhelmed by the supposed productivity improvements in v2. They may be there -- okay, they are
almost certainly there -- but the overall approach to building websites is so radically different in ASPNET2 that I'm going to
suffer a major productivity hit just figuring out how to get started.

It also seems like the v2 framework is more restrictive, in the sense that it lets you do things simply -- provided you do them in a
particular way. I understand that's the nature of a framework, but good frameworks strike a balance between restrictions and
flexibility. Maybe it's just the radical change from v1.1 to v2, but so far all I see is a lot more restrictions, and a lot less
access to the plumbing.

- Mark

23 Dec 2005 12:32 PM

Steven Cheng[MSFT]

Hi Mark,

Welcome. :-)
I've also seen your another thread in this group about the global.asax's
component desiging question, I've posted there.
As for the questions about the new ASP.NET 2.0 data accessing model, here
are some of my understanding:

1. Yes, the ASP.NET 2.0 no longer used the original component based Data
Accessing model, it use the DataSource control to replace the (
DataSet+DataAdapter+ Connection ), thus, we can avoid many autogenerated
code in code behind, but use the statically defined control template in
aspx page....    Using the configuration wizard and smartTag in VS2005 for
generating or configuration datasource control are quite easy....    The
DataSource controls can let us define some selecting or filtering
expression and parameters which help customizing the select result......
these parameters can be bound to many sources (querystring, form, Control,
......)

2. For the using TypedDataSet and typed DataRow object, there still exists
such model, and this is even enhanced by the new TypedDataSet +
TableAdapter model. Through the VS 2005 IDE, we can easily create a
TypedDataSet from DataBase and together with a TableAdapter which
encapsulate all the code wo used to configure through DataAdaper. (You can
see my reply in your another thread on this...).   Thus, we can still
directly use TableAdapter to get a TypedDataSet or a TypedDataTable and use
that to bind the Databound controls (GridView, DataList,
DetailsView......).

SqlDataSource control is mainly used for encapsulating the (unTypedDataset
+ DataAdapter ) data accessing model, in the asp.net 2.0, we can also find
the ObjectDataSource control, this control is used for associate the
ASP.NET databound controls with our buisness or dataaccess components, and
one typical scenario for using ObjectDataSource is just configure the
TableAdapter (we mentioned above) in the ObjectDatasource and bind the
ObjectDataSource control to the databound controls ......., if you feel the
autogenerated methods are not sufficient, we can add our own methods into
the generated class or event define our own dataaccessing Class, and
configure it in ObjectDataSource....

Also, when adding a Datasource control onto an ASP.NET 2.0 page, it's not
necessary to bind them to a databound control, we can also programmatically
use them to get a Data record set by calling their Select method. Some
pre/post processing events like Seelcting/Selected, updating/updated......
also help us do some customization on the data accessing when using
datasource control....

Here are some related tutorial or msdn reference on ASP.NET 2.0's
databinding and using Datasource control, TableAdapter:

#Binding to a Visual Studio DataSet
http://www.asp.net/QuickStart/aspnet/doc/data/objects.aspx#dataset

#ObjectDataSource Control Overview
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/9a4kyhcx.aspx

#TableAdapter Overview
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bz9tthwx.aspx

Hope helps. Thanks,

Steven Cheng
Microsoft Online Support

Get Secure! www.microsoft.com/security
(This posting is provided "AS IS", with no warranties, and confers no
rights.)

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microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:366737

| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet
|
| I'm starting to play around with VS2005 and ASP.NET 2 and have some
questions.
|
| The typical pattern for a data-driven aspx page in v1.1 was data

connection -> data adapter -> dataset -> bound controls. V2 (at

| least by default) doesn't include data connections, data adapters or

datasets in the toolbox when building an aspx page. Nor can I

| find where the DataView component went to. Everything now seems to rely

on the DataSource controls.

|
| Some examples (to which I would appreciate responses on "here's how it's

done in v2"):

|
| 1) If I want to present two different views of the same data -- where I

would previously declare two separate DataView components

| onto the design surface of a page and then bind controls to them -- must

I create two different data sources? This sounds like I'm

| buying into multiple requests against the database for essentially the
same data.
|
| 2) One pattern I used a lot in v1.1 was to define a current record object

(for either the form or a row in a databound control), and

| then use it to return values to display. For example, suppose a record in

the database had two fields, Title and DateChanged. I

| would concatenate these two fields in a protected method called from

within, say, a DataRepeater:

|
| protected string TitleAndDate( DataRowView curDRV )
| {
| some_data_set.row_type strongly_typed_row = (some_data_set.row_type)
curDRV.Row;
|
| return strongly_typed_row.Title + " (" +

strongly_typed_row.DateChanged.ToShortDateString() + ")";

| }
|
| And yes, I know I could do this through databinding expresssions, but

frankly they were a pain in the butt to configure; this way

| may have been less efficient, but it was clearer. At least to me :).
|
| But in v2 the Datasource control doesn't seem to return a strongly-typed

collection of objects. In fact, there doesn't seem to be

| any "knowledge" of the underlying database schema exposed in the return

value of, say, its Select() statement (clearly the schema is

| contained in the Datasource control, but it seems hidden...or at least I

haven't been able to find it).

|
| How do I get access to strongly-typed values from a Datasource control so

I can do things like I was used to doing in v1.1?

|
| Frankly...so far I am deeply underwhelmed by the supposed productivity

improvements in v2. They may be there -- okay, they are

| almost certainly there -- but the overall approach to building websites

is so radically different in ASPNET2 that I'm going to

| suffer a major productivity hit just figuring out how to get started.
|
| It also seems like the v2 framework is more restrictive, in the sense

that it lets you do things simply -- provided you do them in a

| particular way. I understand that's the nature of a framework, but good

frameworks strike a balance between restrictions and

| flexibility. Maybe it's just the radical change from v1.1 to v2, but so

far all I see is a lot more restrictions, and a lot less
Show quoteHide quote

| access to the plumbing.
|
| - Mark
|

Are all your drivers up to date? click for free checkup

23 Dec 2005 12:55 PM

Karl Seguin

SqlDataSource should crawl under a rock and die :) It's a fine
implementation if the documentation properly explains that by using it you
absolutely destroy any chance of having a properly layered system. In some
cases that's acceptable (like a prototype, or your mom's webpage), in all
others the benefits are probably far outweighed by the drawbacks.

It's a point far too often left unsaid.

Karl

--
MY ASP.Net tutorials
http://www.openmymind.net/
http://openmymind.net/redirector.aspx?documentId=51 - Learn about AJAX!

Show quoteHide quote

"Steven Cheng[MSFT]" <stch***@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:rVbr0z7BGHA.1236@TK2MSFTNGXA02.phx.gbl...
> Hi Mark,
>
> Welcome. :-)
> I've also seen your another thread in this group about the global.asax's
> component desiging question, I've posted there.
> As for the questions about the new ASP.NET 2.0 data accessing model, here
> are some of my understanding:
>
> 1. Yes, the ASP.NET 2.0 no longer used the original component based Data
> Accessing model, it use the DataSource control to replace the (
> DataSet+DataAdapter+ Connection ), thus, we can avoid many autogenerated
> code in code behind, but use the statically defined control template in
> aspx page....    Using the configuration wizard and smartTag in VS2005 for
> generating or configuration datasource control are quite easy....    The
> DataSource controls can let us define some selecting or filtering
> expression and parameters which help customizing the select result......
> these parameters can be bound to many sources (querystring, form,
> Control,
> .....)
>
> 2. For the using TypedDataSet and typed DataRow object, there still exists
> such model, and this is even enhanced by the new TypedDataSet +
> TableAdapter model. Through the VS 2005 IDE, we can easily create a
> TypedDataSet from DataBase and together with a TableAdapter which
> encapsulate all the code wo used to configure through DataAdaper. (You can
> see my reply in your another thread on this...).   Thus, we can still
> directly use TableAdapter to get a TypedDataSet or a TypedDataTable and
> use
> that to bind the Databound controls (GridView, DataList,
> DetailsView......).
>
> SqlDataSource control is mainly used for encapsulating the (unTypedDataset
> + DataAdapter ) data accessing model, in the asp.net 2.0, we can also
> find
> the ObjectDataSource control, this control is used for associate the
> ASP.NET databound controls with our buisness or dataaccess components,
> and
> one typical scenario for using ObjectDataSource is just configure the
> TableAdapter (we mentioned above) in the ObjectDatasource and bind the
> ObjectDataSource control to the databound controls ......., if you feel
> the
> autogenerated methods are not sufficient, we can add our own methods into
> the generated class or event define our own dataaccessing Class, and
> configure it in ObjectDataSource....
>
> Also, when adding a Datasource control onto an ASP.NET 2.0 page, it's not
> necessary to bind them to a databound control, we can also
> programmatically
> use them to get a Data record set by calling their Select method. Some
> pre/post processing events like Seelcting/Selected,
> updating/updated......
> also help us do some customization on the data accessing when using
> datasource control....
>
> Here are some related tutorial or msdn reference on ASP.NET 2.0's
> databinding and using Datasource control, TableAdapter:
>
> #Binding to a Visual Studio DataSet
> http://www.asp.net/QuickStart/aspnet/doc/data/objects.aspx#dataset
>
> #ObjectDataSource Control Overview
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/9a4kyhcx.aspx
>
> #TableAdapter Overview
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bz9tthwx.aspx
>
> Hope helps. Thanks,
>
> Steven Cheng
> Microsoft Online Support
>
> Get Secure! www.microsoft.com/security
> (This posting is provided "AS IS", with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------
> | NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 01:56:19 -0600
> | From: Mark Olbert <ChairmanMAO@newsgroups.nospam>
> | Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet
> | Subject: ASPNET2 Radically Changed from v1.1
> | Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:56:18 -0800
> | Organization: Olbert & McHugh, LLC
> | Reply-To: m***@arcabama.com
> | Message-ID: <e6anq15m1durd4pitfm9i78rm6g39nk***@4ax.com>
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> | X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> | X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
> complaint properly
> | X-Postfilter: 1.3.32
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> microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:366737
> | X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet
> |
> | I'm starting to play around with VS2005 and ASP.NET 2 and have some
> questions.
> |
> | The typical pattern for a data-driven aspx page in v1.1 was data
> connection -> data adapter -> dataset -> bound controls. V2 (at
> | least by default) doesn't include data connections, data adapters or
> datasets in the toolbox when building an aspx page. Nor can I
> | find where the DataView component went to. Everything now seems to rely
> on the DataSource controls.
> |
> | Some examples (to which I would appreciate responses on "here's how it's
> done in v2"):
> |
> | 1) If I want to present two different views of the same data -- where I
> would previously declare two separate DataView components
> | onto the design surface of a page and then bind controls to them -- must
> I create two different data sources? This sounds like I'm
> | buying into multiple requests against the database for essentially the
> same data.
> |
> | 2) One pattern I used a lot in v1.1 was to define a current record
> object
> (for either the form or a row in a databound control), and
> | then use it to return values to display. For example, suppose a record
> in
> the database had two fields, Title and DateChanged. I
> | would concatenate these two fields in a protected method called from
> within, say, a DataRepeater:
> |
> | protected string TitleAndDate( DataRowView curDRV )
> | {
> | some_data_set.row_type strongly_typed_row = (some_data_set.row_type)
> curDRV.Row;
> |
> | return strongly_typed_row.Title + " (" +
> strongly_typed_row.DateChanged.ToShortDateString() + ")";
> | }
> |
> | And yes, I know I could do this through databinding expresssions, but
> frankly they were a pain in the butt to configure; this way
> | may have been less efficient, but it was clearer. At least to me :).
> |
> | But in v2 the Datasource control doesn't seem to return a strongly-typed
> collection of objects. In fact, there doesn't seem to be
> | any "knowledge" of the underlying database schema exposed in the return
> value of, say, its Select() statement (clearly the schema is
> | contained in the Datasource control, but it seems hidden...or at least I
> haven't been able to find it).
> |
> | How do I get access to strongly-typed values from a Datasource control
> so
> I can do things like I was used to doing in v1.1?
> |
> | Frankly...so far I am deeply underwhelmed by the supposed productivity
> improvements in v2. They may be there -- okay, they are
> | almost certainly there -- but the overall approach to building websites
> is so radically different in ASPNET2 that I'm going to
> | suffer a major productivity hit just figuring out how to get started.
> |
> | It also seems like the v2 framework is more restrictive, in the sense
> that it lets you do things simply -- provided you do them in a
> | particular way. I understand that's the nature of a framework, but good
> frameworks strike a balance between restrictions and
> | flexibility. Maybe it's just the radical change from v1.1 to v2, but so
> far all I see is a lot more restrictions, and a lot less
> | access to the plumbing.
> |
> | - Mark
> |
>

23 Dec 2005 7:38 PM

Teemu Keiski

> SqlDataSource should crawl under a rock and die :) It's a fine
> implementation if the documentation properly explains that by using it you
> absolutely destroy any chance of having a properly layered system. In
> some cases that's acceptable (like a prototype, or your mom's webpage), in
> all others the benefits are probably far outweighed by the drawbacks.

I agree 100%. There was also interesting discussion about it (declarative
model) a while ago in case you're interested
http://aspadvice.com/blogs/joteke/archive/2005/10/31/13492.aspx

--
Teemu Keiski
ASP.NET MVP, AspInsider
Finland, EU
http://blogs.aspadvice.com/joteke

23 Dec 2005 4:27 PM

Mark Olbert

Steven,

Yes, it does, thanks.

But I'm still confused about how I go about using strongly-typed datasets. Are you saying that to do that I should be using
ObjectDataSource instead of SqlDataSource? It sounds like SqlDataSource is intended more for quick and simple applications. Is that
your point?

- Mark

26 Dec 2005 3:08 AM

Steven Cheng[MSFT]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your response. Yes, SqlDataSource is a encapsulated component
for retrieving data records through DataSet or DataReader ..... And it is
mainly used for simple DataBinding where we don't need additional
customization on the datasource.... Also, as some other members have
mentioned, it's useful when we'd like to build a rapid data access
application or a prototype at designing time.....

In addition, for "using strongly-typed datasets",   you can use the new
TableAdapter in ADO.NET 2.0 to query data and return strong-typed DataSet,
(VS2005 IDE has wizard for creating TableAdapter when creating strong-typed
dataset from Tables....)

#TableAdapter Overview
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bz9tthwx.aspx

And TableAdpater can be used together withe the ObjectDataSource. Of
course, if you need more advanced customization, we can create our own data
access component class which use TableAdapter/Typed dataset internally ,
and the ObjectDatasource use our own data access class....

Regards,

Steven Cheng
Microsoft Online Support

Get Secure! www.microsoft.com/security
(This posting is provided "AS IS", with no warranties, and confers no
rights.)

--------------------

| NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:27:02 -0600
| From: Mark Olbert <ChairmanMAO@newsgroups.nospam>
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet
| Subject: Re: ASPNET2 Radically Changed from v1.1
| Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:27:35 -0800
| Organization: Olbert & McHugh, LLC
| Reply-To: m***@arcabama.com
| Message-ID: <889oq15v1cen7v3oi0f2ob645r9otoe***@4ax.com>
| References: <e6anq15m1durd4pitfm9i78rm6g39nk***@4ax.com>

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microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:366796

datasets. Are you saying that to do that I should be using

| ObjectDataSource instead of SqlDataSource? It sounds like SqlDataSource

is intended more for quick and simple applications. Is that
Show quoteHide quote

| your point?
|
| - Mark
|